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Home ? General Discussion ? sale on Silo 2.3.1

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18/02/2016 00:55:29

PatMarrNCMuvizu mogul
PatMarrNC
Posts: 1738 		There are a lot of cool 3D modelling programs out there... and everybody has their favorite.

Mine happens to be Nevercenter's SILO 2, for several reasons:

1)It's not free, but as 3D apps go, it's pretty inexpensive
2) it makes really clean geometry
3) the interface is uncluttered, and the whole program is about as easy to learn as any modelling program I've messed with
4) and at the moment, it's on sale ($50 off) not sure how long it will be on sale though...

http://nevercenter.com/silo/

If you already have a modelling program you like, stick with it. But if you're new to Muvizu, see the need to learn how to make your own models, but you don't want to waste a lot of money and time to learn it.. you may want to take a look.

Or not. Your call.
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14/11/2016 19:48:26

PatMarrNCMuvizu mogul
PatMarrNC
Posts: 1738 		I'm resurrecting this thread because I notice that Silo is on sale again. Also because I think it is particularly well-suited to making models for Muvizu. It is one of the few easy-to-use modelling programs that works equally well for hard and organic modelling. In other words, you can model by dragging points around like clay, or by using more conventional number-based techniques.

There are plenty of GOOD tutorials available on youtube already, but if people here buy it, I'd be willing to make a Muvizu-focused tutorial for Silo.

Although it doesn't currently export to FBX, I have inside knowledge (from talking to its creator) that the next release will allow FBX export. I'm also talking to him about fixing the MTL file so it doesn't strip out the information required for transparency, and he seems to think that would be a good idea... so SILO seems to be moving in a direction that makes it even more useful as a tool in the ol' Muvizu toolbox.

Here are a couple of links to videos that show what it can do:

overview:


making attachments:


making characters (a series of tutorials):


11 part series that shows how to use ALL of Silo's features... excellent tutorial and very easy to understand



SILO runs on WINDOWS, MAC or LINUX. In my opinion it includes a lot of the features found in 3Dcoat and Blender, but with a much simpler user interface.


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edited by PatMarrNC on 14/11/2016
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14/11/2016 20:09:04

primaveranz
primaveranz
Posts: 520 		Have you tried Voxelise yet Pat?
edited by primaveranz on 14/11/2016
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14/11/2016 20:12:25

primaveranz
primaveranz
Posts: 520 		Although it does look like it is aimed more at the Minecraft fraternity
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14/11/2016 20:24:34

PatMarrNCMuvizu mogul
PatMarrNC
Posts: 1738 		I haven't tried voxelize yet, but I plan to. I think its great for Digimania to provide a tool that seamlessly imports stuff to Muvizu... and the price is certainly affordable enough!

Having said that, I'm a real fan of Silo, and I like it well enough to sing its praises to anybody who will listen. I've tried many different 3D modelling programs in the past 10 years, and up until I found Silo, NONE of them made sense to me. SILO made sense almost immediately... and the large number of tutorials that still work exactly as shown made it easy to get the information I needed at each stage in the learning curve.

We all learn differently, and I suppose the main reason why I like Silo is that the software works the way I think. That might not be the case for other people who think differently.
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14/11/2016 20:42:15

ikesMuvizu mogul
ikes
Posts: 282 		Hi Pat,

I might explore Silo. I see it's now $109,- Do you have to purchase updates, or are the updates free after you buy the software? If you say they work on a next release, maybe wait for that.
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14/11/2016 20:54:03

PatMarrNCMuvizu mogul
PatMarrNC
Posts: 1738 		I'm not quite sure how to answer, Ikes. It's one of those programs that was very popular for a while, then the company shifted its focus to other things, but the developer kept it alive at a slower development pace on his own. I've been using it for a while and haven't ever been asked for more money... but my guess is that when the FBX is added I'll have to pay for an upgrade... how much that may be I don't know... but I'll gladly pay it. It is my understanding (based on conversations with the programmer) that small updates are free

They offer a free 30 day trial if you want to DL it and go thru the tutorials. A guy with your intellect could easily learn how to use all of its features in 30 days, if he just worked thru the tutorials. Having said all that.. I think the software you're using is pretty cool! Since you are making good models with it, why change?
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14/11/2016 21:08:12

ikesMuvizu mogul
ikes
Posts: 282 		Yeah, I was thinking about trying the trial, but I'm working on another old time radio play, which I like to finish before diving into something new.
The software I'm using now is quite ok, but if you say Silo is easy to work with...it also has more features than Hexagon.
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18/11/2016 14:45:55

PatMarrNCMuvizu mogul
PatMarrNC
Posts: 1738 		In light of the recent discussions about copyright, I went back and revisited Sketchup's GENERAL MODEL LICENSE

https://3dwarehouse.sketchup.com/tos.html#license

The GENERAL MODEL LICENSE is the one that applies to people like us who DL the models for some other use. It is a very generous license that does allow reselling under some circumstances... BUT....

One thing it specifically does NOT allow is placing downloaded models into another online repository... even for free. Here's the quoted text:


2. License Restrictions You may not, and you may not permit anyone else to:
  • remove, obscure or alter any product identification, proprietary, copyright, trademark or other notices contained in the Model or accessed in conjunction with or through the Model;
  • claim or misrepresent ownership of any Model which you did not create or develop;
  • use the Model in violation of any applicable laws or regulations or for any unlawful purpose;
  • sell, offer to sell, make or distribute any individual Model on a standalone basis, unless you are the Developer of such Model or otherwise authorized to do so by Trimble or the Developer;
  • use any Models, Creations or Combined Works in a manner that competes with 3D Warehouse (including aggregating such content in another online warehouse or similar product or service); or
  • aggregate any content (including Models) obtained from 3D Warehouse for redistribution, or use or distribute any content obtained from 3D Warehouse in a mapping or geographic application or service, except as expressly authorized under this License Agreement.
    • I interpret that to include Muvizu's asset repository, with item iv) relating to "for sale" items, and item v.) relating to free downloads.

    Upshot is: we're using an animation software that empowers us to import models... but it appears they need to be original models. The good news is that modelling isn't that hard if you have software that's easy to learn, and there are good tutorials for it.

    After the holidays I plan to make a series of tutorials for SILO, specifically geared toward making models and attachments for Muvizu. Silo is currently on sale for $109 USD. Anybody who wants to follow along with my tutorials might want to buy SILO and get a head start by cruising thru the large number of existing tutorials linked above.



    Or not. Totally your call. I'm just looking for ways to keep the ol' Muvizu momentum going. We need to live with enthusiasm because we'll die without it.
    edited by PatMarrNC on 18/11/2016
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    25/11/2016 19:45:19

    Farscaper
    Farscaper
    Posts: 35     		ikes wrote:
    Hi Pat,

    I might explore Silo. I see it's now $109,- Do you have to purchase updates, or are the updates free after you buy the software? If you say they work on a next release, maybe wait for that.


    It's apparently on sale at Steam for around $25.
    http://store.steampowered.com/app/100400/
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    25/11/2016 20:18:45

    PatMarrNCMuvizu mogul
    PatMarrNC
    Posts: 1738     		Farscaper wrote:
    ikes wrote:
    Hi Pat,

    I might explore Silo. I see it's now $109,- Do you have to purchase updates, or are the updates free after you buy the software? If you say they work on a next release, maybe wait for that.


    It's apparently on sale at Steam for around $25.
    http://store.steampowered.com/app/100400/


    WOW!! I have never seen it priced that low! It must be a Black Friday sale! All I can say is...

    1) I love it!.. it's simple to use, yet powerful enough to do just about anything

    2) I'll start making tutorials for it if people here want to use it with Muvizu

    3) At $29 it's a no brainer in my opinion

    4) buy it NOW NOW NOW before they change their mind!


    What I like most about it is the clean and uncluttered interface. It isn't trying to be an app that does everything, which is what makes 3Dcoat and Blender so complex. Too many options. It does one thing very well: Make models... and then UVMap them.

    Whereas any app is hard to learn from scratch, having tutorials that can cut to the nitty gritty and show you exactly what steps to follow to make models for Muvizu... that will make it easy. I wish I had those tutorials.
    edited by PatMarrNC on 25/11/2016
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    25/11/2016 21:16:47

    Nahton
    Nahton
    Posts: 24     		Man, trying to decipher the licensing on the use of these models is painful. I followed the other thread where things flared up on this topic and I'm commenting on this thread as Pat has given his take on the Sketch-up license and that is where I have extensively imported models for another engine in the past. I will state up front that I have never resold any content and always shared any models that I altered, animated or reformatted for free. I haven't searched and imported a Sketch-up model into a game engine in some time but I can recall that there seemed to be more dependency on the Creative Commons licensing and the spirit of sharing that was inherent in their license philosophy. It seems more modelers would cite some level of CC licensing and usually it involved attribution. I always included attribution in my readme file and if possible in the name of the mod. On a couple of occasions I tried to contact modeler and let them know I had used the model in an animation engine, as that is something I would find of interest personally, and did not meet with any success.

    Having never imported a model into Muvizu, I watched tonyob67's tutorial and see that the process could include adjusting the access so the model will work in Muvizu and changing the format so that it can be used in the engine. Once that process is complete you have created a derivative work of the model. Let's say for example you were making a boat add-on and you went through this process for a number of models and bundled them together. Let's throw in some color changes on a few of them as well. Once this is complete the content is shared on the store or another site as a pack for other Muvizu users to download and use. As I read through the 3D Warehouse license I don't see where any of this activity would be in violation and, based on my interpretation, it is in fact approved use.

    Below is my one to one correlation of why I perceive the above activity as approved use with appropriate General License text excerpted from the 3D Warehouse, followed by comments in bold and underlined.


    The license to the Models granted above is limited to:
    Creating derivative works of Models (“Creations”), including by substantially modifying geometry, color, or other attributes of the Models, ..... This would cover re-targeting, re-coloring reformatting etcIncorporating or including Models and Creations into a larger work or a deliverable for a third party (“Combined Work”), provided that the Combined Work includes substantial additional content to the original Model; This would cover bundling into a packDistributing Models, Creations, and Combined Works to third parties for your business purposes (including for commercial purposes); This would cover distributing the models in the Muvizu store for free.Making a reasonable number of copies of the Models, Creations, and Combined Works in connection with the above uses; This would cover the copies made by sharing and distributing.
    I could go on longer on this, but for now, I will finish by saying I think the licensing language is focused on protecting Trimble from misuse while maintaining a site that encourages creation, derivation, and sharing of content for all.
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    25/11/2016 21:51:57

    Farscaper
    Farscaper
    Posts: 35     		PatMarrNC wrote:


    WOW!! I have never seen it priced that low! It must be a Black Friday sale! All I can say is...

    1) I love it!.. it's simple to use, yet powerful enough to do just about anything

    2) I'll start making tutorials for it if people here want to use it with Muvizu

    3) At $29 it's a no brainer in my opinion

    4) buy it NOW NOW NOW before they change their mind!



    Seeing as I'm a part of convincing people to spend money on good sales, I also picked up Aartform Curvy 3d and MindTex on Steam. I'm still mulling over Voxelise because I'm just not into blocky stuff even though I want to support Digimedia.
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    25/11/2016 22:31:42

    MrDrWho13Muvizu mogulExperimental user
    MrDrWho13
    Posts: 2220     		Nahton, those Ts&Cs look ok for putting items on the store for free. I think one main part of the problem with what happened a week ago was that the user didn't give any credit to the original creators, implying everything was their own work.
    Others may disagree though, and personally I'd only re-distribute content if I had permission from the original creator.
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    25/11/2016 23:51:15

    PatMarrNCMuvizu mogul
    PatMarrNC
    Posts: 1738     		Nahton,

    indeed, part of the problem here is that one paragraph seems to say one thing while another paragraph seems to say something else. Which is why I can't authoritatively condemn anybody's interpretation or understanding of all this.

    It really is an amazingly flexible license, and I think that most of the contributors to these sites are happy to make their work available for free.

    The phrase I zeroed in on basically protects Sketchup. They don't want people downloading all their models then putting them in a new place that competes with them.

    So if you DL a model, modify it and put it in a set (derivative work) I interpret that to be OK under Sketchup's license. but...

    If you DL it, do nothing but convert it to FBX and put basically the same model in a different web store... even for free... I think they don't want that.

    But Muvizu's store is different from most other model DL sites because you can't get the models back out of the set. So for this store to become a portal for moving stolen models to other DL sites is not going to happen.
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    25/11/2016 23:58:34

    PatMarrNCMuvizu mogul
    PatMarrNC
    Posts: 1738     		Farscaper wrote:
    Seeing as I'm a part of convincing people to spend money on good sales, I also picked up Aartform Curvy 3d and MindTex on Steam. I'm still mulling over Voxelise because I'm just not into blocky stuff even though I want to support Digimedia.


    SO you bought Curvy3D and Silo? Awesome! I have Curvy too... it uses voxels in its own proprietary way. It has some cool features that I haven't seen in a lot of other programs at that price range. It does a pretty good job of reducing polygon count without changing the object's shape. It also has a way to only add polygons where they're needed for detail, and the rest of the model stays low res.

    It has an EXCELLENT system for sculpting surfaces. And more. But I still like Silo best.

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    edited by PatMarrNC on 26/11/2016
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    26/11/2016 01:02:05

    Nahton
    Nahton
    Posts: 24     		MrDrWho13 wrote:
    Nahton, those Ts&Cs look ok for putting items on the store for free. I think one main part of the problem with what happened a week ago was that the user didn't give any credit to the original creators, implying everything was their own work.
    Others may disagree though, and personally I'd only re-distribute content if I had permission from the original creator.


    MrDrWho13, I'm not disagreeing on anything regarding the flare-up last week and to be honest I don't know enough about it to comment about the conduct of any individual(s) or make a judgement of any wrong doing. I read through the thread but I didn't circle back to the original release thread to verify what was said about ownership and it was contended by some that the original posts concerning the pack release had since been edited. I would whole heartedly agree that it is wrong for any individual to purchase or download free content from a site and repackage it as their own creation and not give any credit to the original creator of meet the license requirement. I was left with the impression that it was not content that originated on 3D Warehouse and as Pat had posted his evaluation of the 3D Warehouse license I wanted to offer my opinion on 3D Warehouse only.

    I did get an impression that some posters seemed to be saying that all mods/packs should consist of original models only. I just don't see it that way, and I found it discouraging for anyone looking to add content that took it to heart.

    PatMarrNC wrote:
    Nahton,

    So if you DL a model, modify it and put it in a set (derivative work) I interpret that to be OK under Sketchup's license. but...

    If you DL it, do nothing but convert it to FBX and put basically the same model in a different web store... even for free... I think they don't want that.




    I'm glad to hear you say that Pat. I believe we are in agreement. I actually meant to add that I thought that clause was to cover content being copied down from Sketch-up in the default format and posted on another site. I guess I might go a bit further and say that if a single model was converted to a proprietary format that could only be used in a proprietary application (Muvizu or MovieStorm) or needs further configuration or additional files to be bundled with the model in order for it to work within the program, it would meet the derivative requirement. For example, a single model in MovieStorm requires multiple files of various formats to be created in order for the converted model to work within the program. Each one is useless on it's own.


    I think your approach to interpreting the license is correct. The language is broad and each person must follow their conscience. I'd just hate to see anyone take a hard-line stance to condemn anyone for taking the time to convert and share assets for free. I believe the intent of the developers is to share content as well. I think any lapse in taking care of the administrative work to provide a formal license is at least in part due to the fact they enjoy providing content for others and aren't concerned with the licensing. We shouldn't be trying to over think it and enforce our individual personal interpretations of the license (for free content) on our end. It is possible to search for models in the 3d Warehouse and add "Creative Commons" to the search parameter. This would aid in confirming the developer defined license for any individual model. If I really wanted to use a model and I did not see a license and couldn't contact the developer, I would feel comfortable that the developer posted it with the intent to share and the use of the model was governed by the General Model License.


    Sorry to hijack this thread. I just wanted to add one final quote from a page on the 3d Warehouse Website:

    "3D Warehouse is all about sharing — and that ethos extends to websites and social media."
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    26/11/2016 01:57:32

    PatMarrNCMuvizu mogul
    PatMarrNC
    Posts: 1738
    Sorry to hijack this thread. I just wanted to add one final quote from a page on the 3d Warehouse Website:

    "3D Warehouse is all about sharing — and that ethos extends to websites and social media."


    don't worry about hijacking any threads. This is important stuff to talk about, and I am happy to see people making an honest effort to understand the intent of these licenses.

    The most common Muvizu-related use of sketchup models is for people to adapt the model and use it in their own videos. I interpret that to be completely OK. It doesn't get "sketchy" (pun intended) until you put it in a store or other DL site. They say commercial use is OK, but then they go on to outline why it isn't OK.
    edited by PatMarrNC on 26/11/2016
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    30/11/2016 01:59:43

    PatMarrNCMuvizu mogul
    PatMarrNC
    Posts: 1738     		I notice that SIlo is back to $119 USD on Steam again today... so anybody who bought it for $29 got the best deal on it *I'VE* ever seen!

    I'm curious to know who all bought it?

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    edited by PatMarrNC on 30/11/2016
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    30/11/2016 17:02:51

    theotherguy
    theotherguy
    Posts: 176     		I'm trying to get my head around exactly how I would USE software like silo in Muvizu, at least in as far as my storytelling goes. I imagine any character one could make would essentially be a statue, unless it could be animated with something like Toonboom, but then, how to have it interact with Muvizu characters?

    I can see using Silo and similar software to make buildings and the like, but importing them into Muvizu seems pretty technical to me. I've had the most success storytelling-wise by importing Muvizu characters into 3-D sets and real environments, but the ultimate goal would see things they could interact with, or characters with scripted movements to use in a backdrop i.e. people working at desks or someone sleeping on a park bench.

    I keep getting offers to try/buy the latest version of Poser, and it would seem to be possible to make animated characters you could have Muvizu characters interact with, but nobody seems to be interested in doing this, just making realistic looking characters seems to be enough.

    Any ideas as to making additional animated characters or content Muvizu characters could interact with?
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