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Home ? Tech Help ? Hand held props issue

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30/11/2013 07:22:41

ukBertyMuvizu mogulExperimental user
ukBerty
Posts: 975 		OK - I have been shying away from this but I need to crack this now.

I pretty much can't import anything as a hand held prop.

So I find a prop from the sketchup 3d warehouse or archive3d.net. I put it through my normal process to get it ready for Muvizu. I can import the .ASE it into Muvizu via create > import and it's all lovely.

When I import the same .ASE as a hand held object it looks like a single/double sided issue (although I'm told this isn't the issue - that's what it looks like).

This happens on 99% of the models I'm trying to use.

If I use FBX then I seem to have the problem however I import it.

Here's an example....

The ASE exported from Sketchup using the plugin. This works as an object but mot a hand held object.

The FBX. Saved out of Sketchup as an FBX, imorted into Autodesk and exported with default options.


I have packaged all files here -
http://www.rodneyandberty.com/downloads/torch.zip

So I'm guessing it's something that Sketchup does that upsets things.

Could one of the you modelling gurus have a quick look and tell me what is wrong with this model so I can apply this to everything else.

Thanks in advance.... Berty.
edited by ukBerty on 02/12/2013
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01/12/2013 04:15:25

primaveranz
primaveranz
Posts: 520 		I get "page not found" for all those links ukBerty

Might the original SketchUp file have the backfaces showing outwards?
edited by primaveranz on 01/12/2013
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01/12/2013 06:18:59

ukBertyMuvizu mogulExperimental user
ukBerty
Posts: 975 		Thanks primavaranz - all fixed
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01/12/2013 06:50:26

primaveranz
primaveranz
Posts: 520 		ukBerty wrote:
Thanks primavaranz - all fixed


I don't know enough about the way Muvizu handles things ukBerty (I only have the free version) but I wonder if it is worthwhile simplifying the model by getting rid of e.g. the bulb filament and the "spring" in the battery case at the base. Also the writing on the side. I can imagine the number of polys might be an issue. I can do this for you if you want.
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01/12/2013 06:57:59

primaveranz
primaveranz
Posts: 520 		Oh yeah and the torches backfaces are all facing out. I'll swap them round...
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01/12/2013 07:07:27

primaveranz
primaveranz
Posts: 520 		See if this version works - I'll leave you to do the export to .ase and .fbx

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0Bz7oh4SWxJEFRkhQd1pmdVdKLWM/edit?usp=sharing
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01/12/2013 17:40:06

urbanlamb
urbanlamb
(Account inactive)
Posts: 1786 		mesh is only one sided this is one issue I will look at the file (migraine now) but if its a visual thing its probably the way the faces are facing it does get dodgy around 65k faces is the object is not made properly the other issue is *cough* collission it works best if you remove the collission or move it to a part of the object that the character wont actually be using.

also the link is broken
edited by urbanlamb on 01/12/2013
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02/12/2013 06:15:46

ukBertyMuvizu mogulExperimental user
ukBerty
Posts: 975 		urbanlamb wrote:
also the link is broken


All fixed....
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02/12/2013 06:25:57

ukBertyMuvizu mogulExperimental user
ukBerty
Posts: 975 		primaveranz wrote:
See if this version works - I'll leave you to do the export to .ase and .fbx


Thanks Primaveranz, but sadly I can't open this file. I can't upgrade from Sketchup 8 for licensing restrictions. The file also comes up with an exception when trying to import into Autodesk 2013.


Could you do the export so I can test it and if it's OK then I'm afraid you'll need to explain what on earth "the backfaces are all facing out" means !
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02/12/2013 08:06:16

primaveranz
primaveranz
Posts: 520 		Try this one :- https://drive.google.com/file/d/0Bz7oh4SWxJEFdTRWZm5WUTVuZms/edit?usp=sharing

It is SketchUp version 6 so should be openable by later versions.

Basically when you create a "Face" with most 3D editors, one side of the face is the Front and the other is the "Backface", in some cases this is used by a rendering program to decide whether to bother drawing it or assume it won't be seen (e.g. because it is inside the model) and save on the processing time. SketchUp seems to randomly assign Backfaces when you are building an object. It probably isn't really random but I have never spotted the pattern

If you build something in SU but don't texture it you will see some faces look white and some look a dull grey blue. The latter are "Backfaces". If you see one on the outside of your model, right-click on it and choose"Reverse face". The front face will now show white. Then you can paint it , and all should be well. Often when importing to other software you have to override the Backfaces by specifying something as being 2-sided, and the importing program should know not to treat a Backface as such. However I don't think this always works and it doesn't seem to be the case in Muvizu from what you describe.

Here is the .ASE version:- https://drive.google.com/file/d/0Bz7oh4SWxJEFWTlzM2l4M0E4NlE/edit?usp=sharing

Hope it helps.
edited by primaveranz on 02/12/2013
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02/12/2013 08:38:21

ukBertyMuvizu mogulExperimental user
ukBerty
Posts: 975 		primaveranz - thanks for your time on this. It now imports OK and I understand the principles involved.


One question for you - looking at the torch in SU, how do I tell which faces I need to reverse. The faces have textures so look the same when I reverse them. Is it just a case of importing into Muvizu and seeing what it doesn't like ?


A question for the devs - Why are the import routines different for importing objects and importing hand held objects ? This makes no sense to me. If a model imports OK as an object then it surely should look the same as a hand held object. I know the answer will be "the object is badly made" - which is a fair point, but the tolerance within the import routines should be consistent across the application. Could this be tidied up in a future version please (although please don't change the object import to be the same as the hand held import - I'll never get any footage done !)


Cheers, Berty.
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02/12/2013 09:14:20

primaveranz
primaveranz
Posts: 520 		ukBerty wrote:
primaveranz - thanks for your time on this. It now imports OK and I understand the principles involved.


One question for you - looking at the torch in SU, how do I tell which faces I need to reverse. The faces have textures so look the same when I reverse them. Is it just a case of importing into Muvizu and seeing what it doesn't like ?


Glad I could help

To see what faces you need to reverse, choose the "View" Menu then choose "Face Style" and the "Monochrome". That will show the object in Black and white and it should be obvious which faces need reversed. A warning though, you will probably need to use the eye dropper to copy the texture that is applied to the backface before you reverse it and then apply it to the front face. This is obvious if (as was the case here with the glass ) a backface has a transparent texture applied. When you reverse the transparent backface, the frontface will be opaque. So you copy the transparent texture first, reverse the face, apply that texture to the newly revealed frontface and it will become transparent again.


Cheers.
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02/12/2013 09:32:50

ukBertyMuvizu mogulExperimental user
ukBerty
Posts: 975 		AH - I see. I think you have given me enough info for me to have a stab at fixing the next thing I attempt to use. You help is much appreciated.
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02/12/2013 19:09:47

primaveranz
primaveranz
Posts: 520 		ukBerty wrote:
You help is much appreciated.


You are welcome. Anything to keep your movie juggernaut a'rollin! !
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