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Home ? Feedback ? bleeding edge beta and things that made me go hmmn

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12/11/2010 22:56:28

DreekoMuvizu mogulExperimental user
Dreeko
Posts: 1257 		I have tried a few diffent things to see if it was a glitch but every time I try and delete something from the time line, everything that follows it is deleted also. Now this is going to make the whole process a much longer affair than before as in the previous version if I had animated a character and wanted to remove an animation block from somewhere in the middle then "click" "delete" it was gone, leaving all animations blocks before and after exactly where they were after directing. The ability to remove blocks from between the start and the end of a directed sequence was a great feature and was a real necessity when it came to the camera animations as you could click for the start position and muck about until you reached the destination shot and delete everything in between for a smooth camera movement from a to b (Give us way points I cry !)

but for the moment it aint possible

also the ability to move anim blocks in front of and behind other blocks on the timeline doen't work they just snap back into place. If they did have the ability to be moved around on the time line I imagine that I could just move the unwanted blocks to the end of the line and delete them thereby dodging the "in the middle delete" problem outlined above.

Hmmnn....

AS Barry has said before ... answers on a postcard?

Cheers
D
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13/11/2010 13:47:03

toonaramaMuvizu mogulExperimental user
toonarama
Posts: 661 		Dreeko

I tried to replicate the problem with a very simple scene (ie 1 character and 3-4 animations only) and I could delete and move things on the timeline just as before infact the delete worked better because I used to have to LC then RC and delete.

This suggests it might be a bug caused by a combination of things?
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13/11/2010 14:33:20

ukBertyMuvizu mogulExperimental user
ukBerty
Posts: 975 		I can confirm that this is an issue with the new version. I have only seen it apply to movements - both character and objects.

I'm just animating lights - grab a light and move it around like a spotlight. Look at the timeline and see many distinct movements. Delete the first one and they all go.

Better get it right first time then !

Berty
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13/11/2010 14:45:31

DreekoMuvizu mogulExperimental user
Dreeko
Posts: 1257 		ukBerty wrote:
I can confirm that this is an issue with the new version. I have only seen it apply to movements - both character and objects.

I'm just animating lights - grab a light and move it around like a spotlight. Look at the timeline and see many distinct movements. Delete the first one and they all go.

Better get it right first time then !

Berty


Yip!

and as I said, cameras too!
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13/11/2010 15:01:29

toonaramaMuvizu mogulExperimental user
toonarama
Posts: 661 		I see now - it is the movements rather than the animations. I can confirm the same problem here; have you emailed bugs@muvizu.com. If not I'm happy to
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13/11/2010 17:11:05

ukBertyMuvizu mogulExperimental user
ukBerty
Posts: 975 		I think Dreeko should do this one - you posted first.

There's a couple of others that I'll report - nothing too bad.

1) There's a memory leak. Eventually you run out of Muvizu memory and it goes into restricted mode. You just save the .set, close Muvizu and back in. Then you're back down to 45% or whatever.
2) I have had a couple of instances where characters won't preview actions when doing a prepare - just trying to work out what the rule is and how best to get round it. Going out and back in does it - but I think just changing character/actions will get it to work as well.
3) Had one occasion when I dragged a movement onto another and both disappeared from the timeline - trouble is the movement was still there, but you couldn't delete it. I deleted the character and it was fine. hasn't happened since.

As I say - a small price to pay for being able to save imported objects.

Berty
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14/11/2010 17:39:13

NeilExperimental userMuvizu staff
Neil
Posts: 396 		Thanks for the feedback, guys.

I feel a bit embarrassed about the bug that Dreeko is experiencing with the timeline as I promised him in-person that it would be fixed for the next release. Unfortunately, as you're aware, there are a few known issues with the Bleeding Edge release, particularly with the character animations. Sadly, this is one of them. Honestly Dreeko, it *was* fixed. But now it's broken again.

I fully intend to have the person responsible flogged publicly. Expect to see photos on our news page shortly.

We're working towards a new release that should fix the outstanding issues with this version, and we appreciate the feedback you're giving us. Please keep it coming. The more information you can give us, the better we can make the next version for you.
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15/11/2010 09:56:31

JamieMuvizu staff
Jamie
(Account inactive)
Posts: 609 		Neil wrote:
We're working towards a new release that should fix the outstanding issues with this version, and we appreciate the feedback you're giving us. Please keep it coming. The more information you can give us, the better we can make the next version for you.


As Neil said, thanks for the feedback. The one thing I want to point out about these timeline bugs is that the movement track will always delete anything after the one you want to delete. This is because the character needs to know its position during movement and if you delete one block the rest no longer make sence. Everything else listed are bugs

ukBerty - could you give some more details on this memory leak? I've certainly seen some lower performance with sets but nothing as obvious as you said. What sort of things were you doing? Lots of audio or imported objects and textures? Lots of characters and movement or animation?

Cheers,
Jamie.

--
Direct, don't animate!
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15/11/2010 17:36:01

ukBertyMuvizu mogulExperimental user
ukBerty
Posts: 975 		Jamie,

Not sure about the memory leak. It's happened twice, once on a short scene with only 5 characters and some running - the other had lots of characters - maybe 20, but saving the .set and coming out and back in of Muvizu gave me 50% back.

I'll keep an eye on it and see when it next happens to see if I can see a pattern.

I have uploaded a video of the prepare bug - it's driving me nuts now as it does happen a lot. I have made this private to you.

Your comment on the movement surprises me - I thought that the movement was all relative which is why you use this mechanism. If it's absolute then can I add my voice to the campaign to getting start and stop locations possible to set on the timeline and then Muvizu moves the characters between them. When ever I start a new scene of Pie I work out how to cut the movement of characters down to a minimum and try not to have them starting and stopping movement in the same shot as the whole mechanism is very fiddley and hit and miss.

Co-ordinates are the way to go and would speed up my animating no end.

Thanks

Berty.
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15/11/2010 18:23:22

GordonMuvizu staff
Gordon
Posts: 23 		ukBerty wrote:
I have uploaded a video of the prepare bug - it's driving me nuts now as it does happen a lot. I have made this private to you.




Hi Berty,

Sorry you've been having a problem with this - I'll be looking at it this week. Hope to have it fixed soon, apologies for the inconvenience.


cheers

gordon
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16/11/2010 10:19:33

DreekoMuvizu mogulExperimental user
Dreeko
Posts: 1257 		Neil wrote:
Thanks for the feedback, guys.

I feel a bit embarrassed about the bug that Dreeko is experiencing with the timeline as I promised him in-person that it would be fixed for the next release. Unfortunately, as you're aware, there are a few known issues with the Bleeding Edge release, particularly with the character animations. Sadly, this is one of them. Honestly Dreeko, it *was* fixed. But now it's broken again.

I fully intend to have the person responsible flogged publicly. Expect to see photos on our news page shortly.



Don't worry about it .Once it's sorted just fling facial animation in aswell and we'll say no more about it




cheers




D
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16/11/2010 10:24:04

DreekoMuvizu mogulExperimental user
Dreeko
Posts: 1257 		Jamie wrote:

As Neil said, thanks for the feedback. The one thing I want to point out about these timeline bugs is that the movement track will always delete anything after the one you want to delete. This is because the character needs to know its position during movement and if you delete one block the rest no longer make sence. Everything else listed are bugs .



We could delete inbetween blocks from the camera movement timeline in the previous version do you count this as one of the" everything else bugs"?
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16/11/2010 11:38:47

NeilExperimental userMuvizu staff
Neil
Posts: 396 		Dreeko wrote:
We could delete inbetween blocks from the camera movement timeline in the previous version do you count this as one of the" everything else bugs"?

Speaking to CrazyDave, it seems the old behaviour (that you liked) was a bug, and the new behaviour (that you dislike) is correct. Ummm... I don't really know what else to... ooh look, a bee!
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16/11/2010 11:52:33

JamieMuvizu staff
Jamie
(Account inactive)
Posts: 609 		ukBerty wrote:
Your comment on the movement surprises me - I thought that the movement was all relative which is why you use this mechanism. If it's absolute then can I add my voice to the campaign to getting start and stop locations possible to set on the timeline and then Muvizu moves the characters between them.


Thanks for getting back to me Berty, I will take a look at your bug video shortly.

The movement is relative to the character, object or camera position, this means you can have a movement path recorded and then rotate the character 90 degrees without breaking the movement. You can also move the character at any point during, before or after the movement events without affecting the path the character, object or camera follows. What I was meaning, in relation to deleting movement blocks is this:-

If I want the character to follow a straight line from A to D but inbetween A and D I want the character to stop 2 times, do an animation and continue. I would first:

1. Record the character walking from A to B
2. Stop and animate
3. Record movement from B to C
4. Stop and animate.
5. Record C to D and finally stopping.

If I then go and delete the movement block from B to C the next block going from C to D must also be deleted as the character, camera or object does not have any knowledge of how to go from B to C to continue the last block of movement. The effect would be a teleport from position B to position C, so all blocks after the deleted one also needs to be deleted.

This is different from animation events that do not contain any positional data for the character, etc. So you can have 3 animation blocks and deleted the 2nd one without the 3rd one being deleted.

The difference between the bleeding edge release and the last release at the end of august is that the animation events and character movement events have been seperated on to different tracks which makes it very clear that everything has been deleted after the event you want to remove, where as before the movement blocks would all be deleted after the one you want to remove but animation events would remain.

Dreeko wrote:
We could delete inbetween blocks from the camera movement timeline in the previous version do you count this as one of the" everything else bugs"?


Yes, this is a bug. This type of movement, where the system basically assumes the correct movement path to go between 2 blocks is bad practice and can lead to unpredictable results. There may be a more elegant solution to this situation, but that will be some time away, at least until the Unreal engine has been updated.


Hope this helps,
Jamie.
edited by Jamie on 11/16/2010

--
Direct, don't animate!
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16/11/2010 14:03:54

ukBertyMuvizu mogulExperimental user
ukBerty
Posts: 975 		Jamie,

Thanks. Maybe I'm being thick but I still don't get it.

Your description of the character moving is absolute, not relative (A to B being absolute, move 20 muvizumeters at 218 degrees being relative).
If your description was

1. Record the character walking 20 muvizumetres at 218 degrees at walking pace
2. Stop and animate
3. Record the character walking 5 muvizumetres at 120 degrees at running
4. Stop and animate.
5. Record the character walking 10 muvizumetres at 180 degrees at walking pace and finally stopping.

If you deleted movement 3 now everything still holds together, sure you end up in a different place than before, but that's to be expected.

It's not a big deal, but the movement mechanism overhaul must now be geting close to the top of the to do list as everything else has come on leaps and bounds.

Thanks

Berty
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16/11/2010 18:49:50

jonbezMuvizu mogulExperimental user
jonbez
Posts: 201 		Being able to delete the cameras middle events and it causing a teleport type of effect but with a smooth transition was a good thing IMO. It was super handy for reusing cameras for new shots and doing quick camera movement. Teleporting positions would also be a nice feature for characters too, so u can teleport them to there next shot without having to walk them there or having to make duplicates of characters.
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16/11/2010 19:19:34

DreekoMuvizu mogulExperimental user
Dreeko
Posts: 1257 		jonbez wrote:
Being able to delete the cameras middle events and it causing a teleport type of effect but with a smooth transition was a good thing IMO. It was super handy for reusing cameras for new shots and doing quick camera movement. Teleporting positions would also be a nice feature for characters too, so u can teleport them to there next shot without having to walk them there or having to make duplicates of characters.
Well said Jon!
For smooth camera movement from a to b , the ability to delete the in-between errors made on the way to b was essential and if it was a bug then it was a bloody good one




Cmoan the bugs!
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16/11/2010 19:51:57

NeilExperimental userMuvizu staff
Neil
Posts: 396 		Dreeko wrote:
For smooth camera movement from a to b , the ability to delete the in-between errors made on the way to b was essential and if it was a bug then it was a bloody good one

Cmoan the bugs!

I disagree. I think a properly designed and implemented waypoint system and the ability to create and modify events directly on the timeline is far more useful. But that's just my personal opinion.
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16/11/2010 20:01:01

DreekoMuvizu mogulExperimental user
Dreeko
Posts: 1257 		Neil wrote:
Dreeko wrote:
For smooth camera movement from a to b , the ability to delete the in-between errors made on the way to b was essential and if it was a bug then it was a bloody good one

Cmoan the bugs!

I disagree. I think a properly designed and implemented waypoint system and the ability to create and modify events directly on the timeline is far more useful. But that's just my personal opinion.


Jesus!!

Ofcourse it is! I just was under the impression that the waypoint issue was a subject that dare not speak its name!
Give us waypoints everytime!, along with block by block insertion of animations as suggested in a thread I created and ignored by all(grrr!)ahem!

Yip waypoints where do I sign!
Cheers
D
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16/11/2010 20:31:56

NeilExperimental userMuvizu staff
Neil
Posts: 396 		Dreeko wrote:
Yip waypoints where do I sign!

Sadly it's not me you need to convince.
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Home ? Feedback ? bleeding edge beta and things that made me go hmmn

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