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Home ? Tips & Tricks ? Use Mandy for animal heads

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05/03/2016 07:59:15

braj
braj
Posts: 286 		Mandy or the other newer characters let you deselect most body parts related to them, allowing you to get only the head remaining, which you can then add a new object to. I created this Koba creature, he can't run around onscreen, but I can move his head. I have a fully animated walk cycle with the cart that I'll compose with the wizard for a scene or two to show some movement, but I'll be trying to use this method when and where I can. You can see how my method wouldn't have worked with the stick figure since his body would still be visible. I think it looks acceptable.


edited by braj on 05/03/2016
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05/03/2016 08:23:43

braj
braj
Posts: 286 		You can do the opposite, and put a half-human figure on a static prop.

I later added the legs as an instrument, the character's only attachment I think, and it works great even for walking, all things considered. I'm definitely using this.

edited by braj on 05/03/2016
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05/03/2016 16:20:27

PatMarrNCMuvizu mogul
PatMarrNC
Posts: 1738 		thanks for sharing that braj... I should have known that the newer characters could do that, but somehow it passed by my radar. Yes, excellent and creative use of Muvizu to simulate new content! I will definitely be using this idea too!
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05/03/2016 17:31:10

ziggy72Muvizu mogulExperimental user
ziggy72
Posts: 1988 		That is freaky - but in a good way
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05/03/2016 18:51:06

PatMarrNCMuvizu mogul
PatMarrNC
Posts: 1738 		I just spent some time messing with this...

I wish they had gone one step further and allowed the head to be made invisible too... then it would be more convenient to create quadrapeds by adding an extra set of animatable legs to a model.

But the ability to "turn off" the arms already provides the solution to one problem with using human characters to simulate animals.

Suggestion for the MUVIZU development team: How about a utility character with the following options:

1) all parts of the character can be made visible or invisible (including the head)
2) foot and hand attachments include paws, claws, hooves etc.. or at least attachment points
3) allow use of the potato head eyes or other new style animatable eyes that can be arranged in space to line up with head attachments
4) create a standalone mouth that can also be attached to a head, but repositioned within a certain radius, so characters could have an animatable mouth at the end of a long snout
5) allow the grouping of character s so that actions assigned to one character will automatically transfer to the other grouped character(s). This would allow dance sequences and also it would allow two sets of legs on a quadraped to walk at the same time.
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05/03/2016 18:55:19

PatMarrNCMuvizu mogul
PatMarrNC
Posts: 1738 		this ability to make certain parts invisible would be a lot more useful if it also came with more attachment points
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05/03/2016 21:54:24

mrmuviz
mrmuviz
Posts: 51 		Very Cool!! thanks for the tip.

Hesh
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06/03/2016 17:30:47

ukBertyMuvizu mogulExperimental user
ukBerty
Posts: 975 		braj wrote:
Mandy or the other newer characters let you deselect most body parts related to them, allowing you to get only the head remaining, which you can then add a new object to.


Well I never knew that... everyday is a school day at the university of Muvizu !!
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06/03/2016 20:55:15

PatMarrNCMuvizu mogul
PatMarrNC
Posts: 1738 		OK, using the newer characters that can have parts of their bodies made invisible, I took another stab at creating a quadraped. The result is functional (in that it proves that my premise works) , but not usable (because the characters we have to work with still don't give quite enough flexibility to provide correct proportions)

If Muvizu developers could provide us with a utility character as stated in a previous post... one that could be completely invisible except for the legs.... or, one with attachment points at the feet so we could model legs that are proportional to the rest of the creature... then we could make our own quadrapeds all day long



notes:
1) The head is attached to a character that is completely invisible except for the head (which is inside the attachment)

2) The legs are two separate characters that are invisible except for their head and legs. In order to keep their heads from popping out the cow's back, I had to make them so small you can barely see the legs... but this shows that using the current Muvizu framework, all the elements necessary to create a quadraped can be assembled. Now it's just a matter of refining the elements that are available

3) Because the newer characters don't yet have separate eyes that can be moved around in 3D space like the potato heads, I had to hard-model the cow's eyes. It would be better if we could add "live" eyes to our creatures
UPDATE: after more testing I see that most of their eyeballs can be moved around in 3d space and the pupils can be directed... but the blinking is hard-modelled to the head.

4) The legs are directed to walk in place. That way you don't have to worry about two moving entities getting out of synch positionally. Movement is simulated with scrolling background and camera movement.

to Muvizu developers:
any chance of getting either a utility character that allows any/all body parts to be invisible except what is needed? Or with attachment points for adding modelled legs/feet?
edited by PatMarrNC on 06/03/2016
edited by PatMarrNC on 06/03/2016
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06/03/2016 21:45:47

braj
braj
Posts: 286 		That cow has some skinny legs!
edited by braj on 06/03/2016
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06/03/2016 22:00:25

MrDrWho13Muvizu mogulExperimental user
MrDrWho13
Posts: 2220 		braj wrote:
That cow has some skinny legs!

Never skip leg day.
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06/03/2016 22:24:40

PatMarrNCMuvizu mogul
PatMarrNC
Posts: 1738 		braj wrote:
That cow has some skinny legs!


Assuming you read what I wrote above then you realize that's exactly my point. If we could make the heads invisible, I could have used the Rosie character's legs, which would have been more proportional. Better yet, if we could attach our own modelled appendages to an otherwise invisible character frame, we could do ANYTHING!

When I first joined this forum, the general consensus was that there are no quadrapeds because the engine didn't support it. The whole purpose of this test is to point out that the MECHANICS are indeed possible, even with the current engine. The missing ingredients are not that far different from what already exists. My hope is that by showing how close we already are, the developers will provide a character that can be used to provide attachment points for whatever we need, and remain invisible apart from that.
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06/03/2016 22:42:57

braj
braj
Posts: 286 		Yeah, I understood, it wasn't a knock on the cow, just he has skinny legs, which is cute. Regarding the engine supporting it, I can't imagine it can't support it, now if it is simple or a lot of work is a different story. What I think is critical though for Muvizu's success and I really hope the developers can recognize this is expanding the people involved that have access to creating new characters and pushing the boundaries of what is possible. The world is moving fast, and lots of competition is coming in this market, like Source Filmmaker, some are powerful and free. If Muvizu is awesome, but it definitely needs more content, most users are never going to go to Poser etc to make anything more, the whole point is simplicity. But as my son pointed out, no bipeds wouldn't make little kids happy. They'll want a pig, no pig. How about a horse? No horse. It is one thing to have a nice barn but with no animals it is kinda pointless. Stuff like that. Even very limited animals would be better than nothing, a horse with a real attached and turning head that stretched polys correctly, even if it couldn't move, would be a big +. As an aspiring animator I get that animal walk cycles are a huge challenge, but something addressing what the kids are going to ask for seems really necessary. My head trick is a bad work around, it is something but when looking at what is possible just in video games, I think the kids are more sophisticated than us old farts and won't be too impressed with our work arounds.
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06/03/2016 23:01:09

PatMarrNCMuvizu mogul
PatMarrNC
Posts: 1738 		True quadrapeds would DEFINITELY be better. The gurus here have been asking for that since long before either of us showed up. Still waiting.

But until that happens, at least having the tools to create reasonable workarounds would be better than no options at all for creating animals. You make a bunch of good points... one of which is that by forcing customers to use other software to include animals, they inevitably start to prefer the other software.
edited by PatMarrNC on 07/03/2016
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06/03/2016 23:33:40

braj
braj
Posts: 286 		Yeah, I'm spending my time in Poser a lot, I'm about to buy add-ons for it instead of Muvizu. The closed nature of all content development beyond static props IMO is what is limiting the audience for Muvizu. It really needs an injection of energy. Blow the doors off, I say.
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07/03/2016 01:04:17

PatMarrNCMuvizu mogul
PatMarrNC
Posts: 1738 		braj wrote:
The closed nature of all content development beyond static props IMO is what is limiting the audience for Muvizu. It really needs an injection of energy. Blow the doors off, I say.


I don't have the insider information to make any claims about whether Muvizu's audience is growing or declining or staying steady. But I suspect its pretty large... and growing.

Although they have some do-it-yourself expansion options available, my gut feeling is that their prime demographic is people who don't WANT to make their own content.. they just want to snap animated Legos together and quickly create presentations. And Muvizu EXCELS at that! In fact, its in a class by itself.

The ability to model attachments has indeed led to a core group of really talented power users who have a real presence on the forum... so it's easy to imagine that most of Muvizu's customers must do that. But I doubt it.

Statistically speaking, there are always more people with dreams than there are with talent. This software makes it easy for the dreamers to create animations that are actually better than users of other software and more talent are making. That's a pretty compelling advantage.

Yes, there is almost no doubt that the smaller number of more talented animators will eventually drift away to other software... but I think there are more people whose skill level is compatible with Muvizu than there are people who will out grow it... so theoretically, as long as they keep this baby floating, they should continue to get customers.

(My opinion, not expressed as universal truth, but as one point of view. Other people may see it differently)
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07/03/2016 01:12:02

PatMarrNCMuvizu mogul
PatMarrNC
Posts: 1738 		braj wrote:
Yeah, I'm spending my time in Poser a lot, I'm about to buy add-ons for it instead of Muvizu.


Speaking of Poser, there's a ton of free Poser content out there if you search for it. I'm not at the computer where I have the links saved, but next time I am, I'll post a few. But if you just google it you'll find it.
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07/03/2016 02:36:32

braj
braj
Posts: 286 		Oh yeah, I have a ton of stuff for Poser, that's not problem. And something just for perspective: I bought an add-on for terrain creation in Poser, it is really nice and all, but it isn't real time. You have to render it with the better Firefly setting to get any real good results. After playing with that for the afternoon, I went into Blender, used their terrain mesh tool, made a mountain range, textured and imported into Muvizu and got nice results that work in real time. So it isn't like I don't see daily how cool the software is. Just I know even the most basic user wants a biped cow or whatever. It is specifically these people I'm thinking about, not the guys that will fix it up in Hitfilm.
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07/03/2016 02:38:03

braj
braj
Posts: 286 		And I freaking love Muvizu's lighting system. I wish Poser's was as nice at getting good results fast.


edited by braj on 07/03/2016
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07/03/2016 03:50:00

braj
braj
Posts: 286 		I also am realizing that I will need to use perspective tricks to get everything to work, which makes complete sense, Hollywood doesn't build an entire lifesize world for stuff, and neither should I. This is true no matter the software I am using, I have to be economical. Here's the scene at the bottom of a mountain which isn't very big actually, with trees reduced in size as they get further away to fool the eye into thinking it is bigger.

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