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22/09/2010 13:42:58

toonaramaMuvizu mogulExperimental user
toonarama
Posts: 661 		I know you're only just working on making props movable but...

would it be possible to have props that can be animated?

For example a door that could "open" and "close" perhaps by selecting the object and then selecting an appropriate shortcut key.

Alternatively it could work in the same way as the character animations with prepare/direct?

thanks

Toonarama
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22/09/2010 13:54:09

glasgowjim
glasgowjim
Posts: 698 		Hi Toonarama,

The devs are looking into the possibility of having things like car wheels moving etc. but the basic object movement is their primary focus. I have to admit that doors opening and closing would be pretty cool though.

What you could do is import a door frame and door - this would allow you to animate the door opening/closing while the frame remains in the same place. (This is something that I am going to try as soon as moving objects are available for testing.)

Take care,
-Jim.
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22/09/2010 14:00:11

toonaramaMuvizu mogulExperimental user
toonarama
Posts: 661 		Thanks for that excellent suggestion Jim; it implies that objects will be rotatable - is that correct (even if it is not a word?)

thanks

Mick
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22/09/2010 14:23:09

glasgowjim
glasgowjim
Posts: 698 		Hi again Mick, I have a bunch of ideas in my head based around objects moving together - one of which could be pretty awesome (if I can pull it off)

You should be able to move the objects in the same way as the camera, which includes being rotatable .

There is a specific way that I was thinking of doing it, but I don't want to get into too much detail before I try it.

Take care,
-Jim.
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22/09/2010 14:37:11

toonaramaMuvizu mogulExperimental user
toonarama
Posts: 661 		Jim
Sounds intriguing - certainly moving an "object grouping" together would open up a number of possibilities - especially if characters could move with them?!

Also I guess a model could be broken up into separate parts to allow it to be animated. I guess you can do this in sketchup but I might investigate 3dxchange which is a Reallusion product. Although primarily for ICLONE it can import and export to Sketchup and allows you to perform lots of changes to the model.

Being an ICLONE owner I already have it but the standard version is not too expensive.

all the best

Toonarama
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22/09/2010 15:03:49

glasgowjim
glasgowjim
Posts: 698 		Mick,

We probably haven't even thought of half the things that can be done with moving objects - which is why I am really, really looking forward to trying it out.

I have to admit, I didn't like using Sketchup at first but it's grown on me - especially given the fact that there are so many models on the Google Warehouse.

Take care,
-JIm.
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23/09/2010 05:08:47

iwansuryo
iwansuryo
Posts: 7 		Dear Jim and everyone,

Object or prop animation is very basic in animation software. Even in amateur freeware animation software, we are always find that feature in the first place. It cannot be replaced with texture animation, in any condition. This is not 2D system but 3D system. We must be translating, rotating and scaling object because it is very fundamental in all aspect. Even in 2D system, object animation is very common, and it cannot be compensated with any other way.

And I hope that it as easy as camera animation on Muvizu. I have seen focus animation, shake animation and many other impressive capabilities of this software. But it is still lack of the basic thing: object animation. May be color or texture animation addition will be great addition too. And I hope morphing animation can be implemented too, whis is very usual in all kind of 3D animation system. But this is, I am sure, a very hard improvement, so that it should be covered in other way.

And please don't forget that a character should have a choice to become an object, and doing basic object animation. I think it can be conflicting with character animation but it can be serve as a choice. If someone activate a character as an object in one take, then it can running object animation but cannot running character animation, and vice versa.

I still don't understand, why physics engine from Unreal cannot be implemented as a part of object animation too? I think it is a little step to make bouncing ball or collision object become real animation in Muvizu.

Object animation should become first and the most important agenda for Muvizu Team to make believable animation video for everyone. Don't make it hard, and forcing everyone on texture moving imagination! Object animation is a must and should become big improvement on Muvizu. I see a very bright future with Muvizu kind animation system and many people will doing animation as easy as writing an article! So, why don't take it seriously?

Iwan Suryolaksono
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23/09/2010 10:12:24

glasgowjim
glasgowjim
Posts: 698 		Good Morning Iwan,

Object animation and Animated Properties are due to be in the next release, which is scheduled for the start of November. This will allow you to animate object movement, as well as change their colour/size etc. during your movie.

As we are building upon a game engine the "game" aspects, such as character movement, were the first things that were implemented - also please remember that we are still in Beta and as such Muvizu is still a work in progress.

We are trying to add as much functionality as possible while keeping Muvizu easy to use.

If you have any other questions or suggestions please let us know.

Take care,
-Jim.
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23/09/2010 11:15:12

iwansuryo
iwansuryo
Posts: 7 		Thank you for your quick answer Jim,

I know Muvizu spirit about animation for everyone and finding easiest way to do it. And I think object animation is the easiest part on any kind of animation system. And don't forget that texture object animation can make glowing ball, fire ball, water body effect and many kind of animation that we will be used in every day life.

Regarding physic engine, I think gravity and bounciness parameter should be enough to transform any kind of volume object as a real physical object.

And the last thing that is very important is about directing character animation. I know your spirit is based on 3D Movie Maker, old fantastic program which is the best program for my childhood era. But I think if this program primarily rely on mouse movement to make character walking, like many other user in this forum, it's very hard to get predictable movement! Muvizu has instant rendering so that very little lag on mouse performance will make big trouble on walking result! I am agree with other user in this forum, that Muvizu should have path animation like IClone and many conventional animation software, so that directing character means plotting their movement on the ground with dot marker. If the distant between marker farther, than the character will running, and if the distant between marker shorter, then the character will walking very slowly. With path animation, you can install many style of walking, like Poser system, and this tehcnique will make Muvizu user have diverse option to implement their idea.

The way to direct character with just using mouse movement, I think is childish. Please forgive me for my word. But it is true. We can have many unpredictable result because of little lag of mouse input. Right now I am using AMD triple core, 2 gigs RAM and Geforce 9500GT, so the hardware should be enough to run Muvizu, just like I am using 3ds Max.

I have another idea to integrate path animation on directing character animation. You can make dot marker which has been produced by mouse movement visible, and can be edit one by one. Every dot marker can be delete or translate on the ground. With every dot marker can be manipulated individually, then mouse movement will become very powerfull path animation and we can get predictable result. I hope that you can understand what I mean.

Thank you for your generosity on making such a great animation system.

Iwan Suryolaksono
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23/09/2010 11:43:57

glasgowjim
glasgowjim
Posts: 698 		Hello again Iwan,

Adding textures to objects has been suggested in the past, and it is something that a lot of us want to see but it may be a while before it can be looked at.

Releasing animated objects to allow them to be effected by physics is something that is going to be looked at but it may not be implemented.

"Point & Click" controls have also been suggested in the past and we are looking into it.


Take care,
-Jim.
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28/09/2010 19:17:47

inlimbo
inlimbo
Posts: 70 		Early November sounds great. It might take me that long to create my movie in the first place. I have a few questions based on this.

1. Are you going to have props that the characters can pick up and release? Will they be able to open doors? When might this be incorporated into the game/program?

2. If not, are there some tutorials on faking it?

3. If I create a Muvizu movie file over the next 2 months, will the new release of Muvizu in November be able to open my file from the previous release? (Hopefully it will be a seamless transition!)

Thanks!



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edited by inlimbo on 9/28/2010
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29/09/2010 10:38:08

mcmillan-raExperimental userMuvizu staff
mcmillan-ra
Posts: 164 		1. Not yet. We will address this at somepoint in the future - it is on our very long "to do" list - I can't say when it will happen though. I can say it won't be in this iteration - or in the next as those are both planned out. Maybe the one after that. A fair chunk of stuff in the next release starts to lay the foundations for it to happen.

2. There aren't any yet, but we may have some by then. I know Jim's keen to do some stuff like that. He's been trying out opening doors already.

3. Yes it will (or at least - it should do.) We have spent a lot of time making sure that the sets are backward compatible - that doesn't mean that wee errors don't creep in, but if you let us know about them - then we'll try to fix them.
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29/09/2010 13:40:34

DreekoMuvizu mogulExperimental user
Dreeko
Posts: 1257 		Quick question



With the introduction of animated objects and their properties, would it be possible to have a backdrop with a scrolling background switch to a totally different scrolling background during the animation?



cheers in advance




D
edited by Dreeko on 9/29/2010
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29/09/2010 13:58:25

NeilExperimental userMuvizu staff
Neil
Posts: 396 		Dreeko wrote:
With the introduction of animated objects and their properties, would it be possible to have a backdrop with a scrolling background switch to a totally different scrolling background during the animation?

This is something I'm currently working on. I don't want to say too much 'cos I don't want to make promises I can't keep, but the answer is: "yes, hopefully".
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29/09/2010 17:09:19

inlimbo
inlimbo
Posts: 70 		Thanks for your answer mcmillan-ra. If you guys quickly throw in a grab animation and a lift and push animation, that would cover a lot of bases and allow users to fake a lot of stuff once the objects gain their own animation abilities.

Great work so far... good luck on all your efforts.



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edited by inlimbo on 9/29/2010
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29/09/2010 20:18:22

DreekoMuvizu mogulExperimental user
Dreeko
Posts: 1257 		Neil wrote:

This is something I'm currently working on. I don't want to say too much 'cos I don't want to make promises I can't keep, but the answer is: "yes, hopefully".


Good stuff!

Thumbs Up
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04/10/2010 19:31:40

dwino
dwino
Posts: 56 		mcmillan-ra wrote:
1. Not yet. We will address this at somepoint in the future - it is on our very long "to do" list - I can't say when it will happen though. I can say it won't be in this iteration - or in the next as those are both planned out. Maybe the one after that. A fair chunk of stuff in the next release starts to lay the foundations for it to happen.


I'm new here, and I also greatly appreciate and realize that you're developing a beta work in progress...BUT...beyond making the objects animatable first (which makes sense), why wouldn't you have handling props highest next on your list?

It's pretty much the one feature that's missing in your robust platform. I like your cameras, lights, characters, movement. Good stuff. But being able to handle props is pretty basic to these types of software AND of course movie making in general. Without props you've only got talking heads, or walking and talking heads. Use of props convey so much about characters and their intentions, beyond the practicality and realism of using them.

iClone and Moviestorm have such a feature. If you are to stake out your place as a contender I'd say unplan the release after this one and GET PROP HANDLING in there!!! No joke here, if you do the math handling of props MIGHT (and only might) be in Muvizu by the beginning of March 2011. It could easily NOT BE in that release and therefore not make it until May, July, or worse yet September 2011!!! I say, GEt that lovely feature in there by January! Certainly you've got a window of opportunity to take over part of the market from those lovely people. However, if you don't seize the moment now you may not catch that all important train to Moviemakerdominanceville.
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05/10/2010 10:26:20

mcmillan-raExperimental userMuvizu staff
mcmillan-ra
Posts: 164 		Hi Dwino,

I take your point, but there are reasons why we're doing things in the order we're doing them. I understand that you want to hold and interact with props, and so do we - really. But... there are quite a few things that have to happen in order for it to work in a sensible way and we are moving towards that.

As I said, the foundations for it will be in the next release.

Unfortunately, we cannot add this in the following release because we have some important work to do on the "back end" of the engine, which we cannot put off.

So, please bear with us, we are a reasonably small team with limited resources and can only do so much at a time.
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05/10/2010 13:37:18

barrys
barrys
Posts: 102 		I completely agree with the importance of holding things. It's pivotal for taking Muvizu to the next level. From the Art/Design side of things we've got a lot of problems to solve which I reckon we'll get started on before Christmas. But like McMillan-ra says it's going to take a while. Here's what's on my mind:



Holding things
How do we pick things up, how do we put them down again?
Same question as above but how do we deal with surfaces at any height?

What about characters at different scales?
How does a 'held' object affect current animations?
How many new poses and animations to how many moods will we need to add?
Grip's important - holding a phone is different to a gun. How do we cater for this?
How do we add object-specific animations: Peeling a banana, or speaking on a phone?

Answers on a postcard please

Barry
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05/10/2010 17:06:58

mystoMuvizu mogulExperimental user
mysto
Posts: 471 		Are there things that I would like to see added? of course. Are there things that could be improved upon? Of course. I realize that you are a small team of individuals probably working insane hours trying to get Muvizu the way you and everyone else would like to see it and I for one appreciate all of your efforts.

Having done a bit of program coding myself, I know how difficult it can be to get a piece of software to act or do what you want it to. It is a VERY labor intensive task. Personally, I think you guys are doing a fantastic job!

I have been using Muvizu pretty extensively for a few months now and even with all that the program "doesn't have" I am still finding new things about it. There is no other 3d animation program that I am aware of that has all of the features that it does where you can see the results of a creative idea in such a short time and professional manner.

I know that "team Muvizu" probably has a whole bunch of cool stuff they are working on to add to the program in future releases and I am looking forward to "test driving" it when its available.

Keep up the good work!
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